for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. (most sales were in the 1930s). (copy right L.R. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. It is located just above the circle with ELG. Comblain The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period By Alain Daubresse. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Ad Categories: Pre-1840. to identify the manufacturer. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. HI, John. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Seen We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Bernard Lambert Baron Emile The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Please note! I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! I have not fired it. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used stream Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Any ideas as to date range? insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. . A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Bonzon & Arents & Cie Thank you for Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Many thanxPS:. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Britte Frres BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Courard Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Arendt Maurice Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Order this book online and pay it through Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. These firearms A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Chaumont M.J. Does it reach the touch hole? The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Cap Joseph ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, Bertrand Joseph I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Comblain - Dorther Hubert U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Counet-Leboulle J. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Boden After years of looking at and trying On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. JavaScript is disabled. . reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Anyone else know? Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Very helpfull once again. Bernimolin The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Bettonville - Fontaine Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Any idea how to date it? I think it was made 1890 but not sure. It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Chartier Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Designates rifled barrel. I can send pictures of it. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? The These Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Thanks Brandon. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Arnold Mathias Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Closset Louis Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Collette Lopold Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Its weight Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . The Modern Shotgun. determination. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. It is was built using a very thick Counet Philippe
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old belgian gun makers